In Avengers 4 if they do go back in time to collect all the stones to stop thanos then that means they have to get the soul stone. But then that means someone from the team will have to sacrifice someone they love. If that is true who do think it will be?

starkravinghazelnuts:

I’ve written about this horrifying possibility here. But I’ve had some more thoughts about it. 

I think if Avengers 4 involves them acquiring the Infinity Stones, that means they’ll have to get the Soul Stone too, and Red Skull made it clear the only way to get it is to trade a soul for a soul. 

Since they’ve been foreshadowing Tony will be the one who will get the Soul Stone (the marketing campaign putting Tony on the Soul Stone prior to A:IW; Thanos saying Tony was “cursed with knowledge” which is a line associated with the Soul Stone), that means Tony is going to be the one who sacrifices someone (and lives with the pain).  

I think Tony will sacrifice Steve. 

While Pepper would seem the obvious choice since Avengers: Infinity War highlighted Pepper and Tony’s relationship, there’s a 0% chance Tony would sacrifice Pepper (because, if anything, Tony would ask Pepper to sacrifice him). Also? It’s just way too dark for a film owned under Disney. It would be one thing if Pepper died, but to have her fiance kill her? Nuh-uh. Not happening.

My guess is that Tony will suggest Pepper kill him to get the Soul Stone, which will lead into an argument, and Steve will step in and offer to die instead (so that Tony and Pepper can have a future together). 

Not only is it ominous Red Skull (Steve’s nemesis from Captain America: The First Avenger) is guarding the Soul Stone, but a chunk of Steve’s screen time in Avengers: Infinity War involved Steve being there to watch Wanda and Vision argue about the idea of sacrifice. It’s Steve who pushes for them to try and save Vision (”We don’t trade lives”), which makes me believe Steve will be the one to lay his life down to save the universe – especially in order to give two people he cares about a chance at having a life once the war is over (which is something Steve never got). 

Stephen McFeely (the screenwriter for Captain America: TFA, Captain America: TWS, Captain America: CW, Avengers: Infinity War, & Avengers 4) said this about Steve Rogers in an interview in 2011:

“The thing about Steve Rogers again and again is sacrifice. We didn’t come to any conclusion about what kind of life Steve would have if he came back home from the war because we didn’t have to. But if he did, what kind of life was waiting for him? If the war is over, what does this new Steve do? He didn’t have much of a life to go to. Before, he couldn’t have a relationship with woman because they wouldn’t look at him. Now he’s attractive to women but he’s 40 miles behind enemy lines. He’s a character about sacrifice. He sets aside his personal life again and again. He’s a hero.”

That’s… a pretty defining character trait. And I don’t see them letting it go. If the opportunity for sacrifice arises, Steve is the go-to guy to do it.

In their Collider interview, McFeely and Markus also revealed it was always the plan to bring Red Skull back – with or without Hugo Weaving, which kind of speaks to how important the character will be going forward into the next film.

Furthermore, Tony sacrificing Steve plays into the overarching theme of “daddy issues,” which has been running strong in this chapter of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Tony’s hang-ups with Steve primarily involve his father Howard – and Tony’s jealousy that Howard seemed to love Steve more than him.

This has been something McFeely and Markus have been heavily developing – which makes me believe it will become integral to the story. 

For instance, Stephen McFeely said this about a line Howard says in Agent Carter (a show they were creators/writers for): 

“We were doing Agent Carter — this is a very small aside — but we wanted to make sure in the final episode of Season One of Agent Carter that Howard [Stark, Iron Man’s father] says something to the effect of ‘Steve Rogers [Captain America] is the greatest thing I ever did.’”

(Of note: The actual line in the episode was this: “[Steve] was the one thing I’ve done that brought good into this world.”)

Tony’s relationship with Howard wasn’t a focal point just once, but three (3) times in Captain America: Civil War (also written by Markus/McFeely): 

The first time is when Tony’s showcasing B.A.R.F., reliving an doctored memory of his last moments with his mother and father. This shows that Tony has never emotionally recovered from never saying goodbye.

The second time is when Tony’s talking with Steve, and Tony lampshades how much his father talked about Captain America (“Oh, really? You two knew each other? He never mentioned that. Maybe only a thousand times. God, I hated you.”).

The third is, obviously, the ending sequence in the Siberian bunker, where Tony learns the truth about his parents’ death at the hands of the Winter Soldier, which is ultimately the catalyst that shatters what hope there was of the Avengers coming back together. At the end of this fight, Tony tells Steve, “That shield doesn’t belong to you. You don’t deserve it. My father made that shield!”

That’s… a lot of narrative build-up to something. 

But to what? 

There’s a classic meta video making the rounds I would place money on (and I’ve talked about it a lot). It’s 

“Marvel’s Biggest Baddie Just Wants To Be Your Daddy” by Just Write. In the video, the author theorizes that Thanos is the biggest baddie of the MCU because he’s the villain who is trying to turn the heroes back into children (after they’ve spent the past 18 films “growing up”). 

However, there’s one character who Thanos treats as an equal – and that’s Tony Stark. Tony is the only other character in the film portrayed as a father figure (Tony says at the beginning he wants to be a father; and then there’s Tony’s relationship with Peter). This could shed light on why Clint and Scott were deliberately excluded from this part of the story (because they’re the other two “father” characters in the MCU).

If the MCU has been all about “growing up,” and now there’s this big, evil purple grape trying to turn them into children again, who else to take down this guy than another dad? Tony is positioned in that role.

… But problem is? Tony still has some baggage tethering him to his dad. 

Steve is the last connection Tony has to Howard. It would be symbolic if Tony’s sacrifice of Steve also represented Tony cutting the last tie he has to his father, which will be what enables him to beat Thanos once and for all. Because then he’ll be “grown up” (metaphorically speaking).

This also fits with what RDJ said about Tony’s upcoming arc in Avengers 4: 

“And then I think as he gets older, he’s now started to think about universal law of love that involves sacrifice.”

Many have interpreted this to mean Tony would sacrifice himself – but Tony sacrificing himself isn’t something new. He’s been willing to do it several times already (Iron Man, The Avengers, Avengers: Age of Ultron). But Tony having to sacrifice someone he cares about? For the greater good? That is something else entirely. 

ANYWAY – I’ve rambled enough. And this could all be me scrying tea leaves. But it’s all… hmm.